114 replies to this topic

[V70Ben]

Over the past 3 to 4 weeks the moderators and administrators have been discussing at some length what direction the site goes in terms of server capacity.

We know that many of the members have in some cases "complained" or "mentioned in passing" that it seems to be running somewhat slowly at times, which has become particularly apparent in peak hours of usage.

The admin did instigate a replacement server with another host, and after some testing by the team, and also a couple of members who were invited to have a "poke about" and test things, we have come to the conclusion that the forum has as such "outgrown" the services available at "reasonable cost".

The current server/hosts have served the forum quite happily for well over 2 years now, and it has been pretty much glitch free and fairly reliable - however we have reached the limit of what can be provided (particularly within a reasonable cost)

We could move to a "poverty" Third Tier server/host (generally a man in bedroom with impressive looking credentials who offer the world for "half price") but we would suffer terribly from downtime and unreliability, and we have no doubt slow speeds. We have recently seen the issues with Third Tier hosts and have no real wish to go down that route.

After a period of reflection and discussions, we have decided it is now time to ask the members what they want/think and would expect - we have considered everything we can think of, and have completely dismissed a number of options, some of those being

Voluntary Membership Options / Voluntary Premier Member Options

Both of those options would still mean an open forum, but would have come with maybe some fringe benefits like a forum email address etc for a donation of say �10 per year. However there was concern that as has previously happened on some other forums, a small minority of those who were "premier members" would feel they had some sort of hold, entitlement or capability to lord it over others.

A member who I speak to on a fairly regular basis suggested a form of Anonymous Donation, that would only become "active" when required and there would be no recognition of that on the forum etc.

As it stands at the minute, there are a couple of options that we can see.

1. Leave it as it is - and people just take the slowness and limitations etc.
2. Open a voluntary donations option

If number 2 became the preferred option, I can say that things such as speed and availability will improve for members, and the admin will also be able to do a few more things on the forum, such as bringing in a more clever search engine integrated into the forum search function (which will find the right stuff, and not be crippled to 4 characters etc..) and also, such things as the timeout on the shoutbox will also be upped and also potentially the limits of uploads etc will also be upped as the forum will have considerably more resources available.

Whilst the mod's/admin team are aware that in the current financial environment things are tight for everybody, it is only right that we canvass the opinions of the members.

To give you some idea of the useage the forum now gets, we are transferring considerably more in 2 days that the monthly bandwidth limit allowed on a basic BT broadband home account   O

Over a period of 24 hours, there must be an average of 15 members and 10 guests online (and in peak hours it's more like 30/40 members and 20 guests)

There are on average 4 new members every day registering.

Unlike some forums, we've studiously avoided taking advertising from traders (despite interest from some companies) , or charging traders for their sections on the forum, or even commission monies from traders or insurers etc as thats pretty much the basic tenet of the forum - that means effectively the forum has no income, and just expenditure.

In terms of costs, it's looking at being around the �40 per month, whilst I'd love to be in a position to personally donate that and resolve the issue I'm afraid I can't - and given some comments recently about the moderation team, I think some who are very quick to critisise us on any number of fronts, may want to consider their opinions a little more

We don't beg for gratefulness, nor do we suffer from those posts/topics where people try to kiss our arses - we've never wanted that - however what we DO need is your input.

We welcome your thoughts and opinions.



I must reiterate so it is absolutely crystal clear - At no point are any of us, nor would we wish to ever see a situation where the forum becomes "closed" to only members - or becomes closed full stop. <so keep your knickers on> But we also don't want it to become slower and slower and sloooowwwwwerrrrr...

[Dream3r]

Hmm this is a tricky one, I wish you had mentioned this on the phone

It all comes down to the individuals, I personally would not have a problem paying for membership if it keep away from the paid sponsor type model that other sites use.

Again personally I have saved many ££ by getting advice on here as well as spending ££ on recommended tuning mods . I surely would have sold my car now rather than cherishing it like I do now if it were not for this site.

What we don't want to end up with (and I'm sure you are trying to avoid) is a frustrating site to use, loading times, timeouts etc, that surely would put to bed the good work the members and admin/mod team have done since this site opened.

With the above in mind I would be more than happy to pay a few pounds each year/month with a view to improve the site and keep the momentum and good work going.

Edited by Dream3r, 12 March 2010 - 22:48 .

[tingymagig]

it is getting painfully slow at times and the stripping things to a bare minimum to try to keep it running to speed is sometimes more annoying then it being slow (perticularly from my point of view the 2min shoutbox issue)

i personally have no issues donating to the running of the forum, to be honest the amount of money this place has saved me by donating 10% of that would probobly run the site for a year.

dont know about "premier member" its a bit poncy really but i dont see a reason there cant be adonator icon(whatever that may be) as it may encourage people to also donate, but whatever the masses decide on that front but i also agree that anyone banding the "i help support this site" card as an "im better then you" or who the fuck are you" point should have there donator status removed and no further donations accepted from them although ive never seen that happan on any of the other forums that run on donations.

the other problem i have is i never know how much to donate so perhaps a lil thing saying the forum needs x much to be run for the year and then it decreases as people donate so people know how much to donate

thats my views on it

[V70Ben]

Dream3r, on 12 March 2010 - 22:47 , said:

Hmm this is a tricky one, I wish you had mentioned this on the phone

Sorry, I was clock watching given the time and tbh have had lots on my brain of late (and it's run out of bandwidth)

Dream3r, on 12 March 2010 - 22:47 , said:

It all comes down to the individuals, I personally would not have a problem paying for membership if it keep away from the paid sponsor type model that other sites use.

Thats tbh what all the Mod/Admin team want to avoid, and have done since day 1.

Dream3r, on 12 March 2010 - 22:47 , said:

What we don't want to end up with (and I'm sure you are trying to avoid) is a frustrating site to use, loading times, timeouts etc, that surely would put to bed the good work the members and admin/mod team have done since this site opened.

Exactly the same as my thoughts.

I may give you a call again tommorow - I can mention it then

tingymagig, on 12 March 2010 - 22:58 , said:

it is getting painfully slow at times and the stripping things to a bare minimum to try to keep it running to speed is sometimes more annoying then it being slow (perticularly from my point of view the 2min shoutbox issue)

Thats part of the issue you see - from your point of view, it's an important part of the community - however, not everybody uses it, if that causes problems of capacity, then it can timeout the rest of the site - and then you have no shoutbox and forum.

tingymagig, on 12 March 2010 - 22:58 , said:

the other problem i have is i never know how much to donate so perhaps a lil thing saying the forum needs x much to be run for the year and then it decreases as people donate so people know how much to donate

I think thats along the lines of how we'd like to see anything like that ran tbh.

[T5-Andy]

Ben,

I had no idea that you were personally paying to maintain the site on a monthly basis. I am in favour of funding the site broadly in line with the way we raise  funds for Christmas gifts, it works. No icons, no premium membership, none of that, those who value this resource (and there are enough of them) will, I feel sure, provide the required funding.

What will be required is the yearly total budget in order that those who wish to contribute have an idea of what is needed, options regarding "If, in the coming year, we wish to do X in addition to what we already do then it will cost �Y" need to be spelt out and a democratic debate had, ultimately leading to a poll.

Those are my thoughts on the subject, and by the way, thanks for the financial support you have thusfar provided,

Andy

[V70Ben]

T5-Andy, on 12 March 2010 - 23:26 , said:

I had no idea that you were personally paying to maintain the site on a monthly basis.

Andy - Im not personally paying to maintain it on a monthly basis, what I meant is that I'd love to be in a position to swallow the £40 a month myself (as it would then be real easy) but I'm not.

Of course, hosting such a big resource isn't free (But it isn't an absolute fortune) - and we aren't at the VOC level of paying £300+ per month.  

<I've removed the two duplicate posts.... now you see what I meant ... it ran slow, and you double clicked so it posted twice>

[Sir Drivealot]

I suggest a "donate (paypal or similar) button" BUT unlike the VOC shambles (where it turned out that I was only one of three people to ever donate) There should be a tally visible of the number of members who have donated (not how much they donated)

I have personally offered up an amount for this year if we move to a premium server. But I have no idea what I would be able to donate next year, or the year after that such is my life at the moment.

I don't in the slightest think that a membership status should be displayed as it encourages a form of snobbery as I have seen on other forums.

[yosser]

tingymagig, on 12 March 2010 - 22:58 , said:

the other problem i have is i never know how much to donate so perhaps a lil thing saying the forum needs x much to be run for the year and then it decreases as people donate so people know how much to donate

I quite like this idea.

Assuming you can accurately estimate the costs over a particular time frame then some kind of countdown thing might be a good idea.

At some point in the future someone will almost certainly level accusations about where the money is going, so if the level of donation is capped over a given period then it might be less of an accountability issue.

I'm not suggesting anyone can't be trusted to administer a payment scheme, I'm just trying to pre-empt the bitching of some future disgruntled member.

Skint as I am, I'd be more skint without the help of the folks on here - so whatever is decided I'll donate as much as I can.

[Sir Drivealot]

yosser, on 13 March 2010 - 07:49 , said:

At some point in the future someone will almost certainly level accusations about where the money is going, so if the level of donation is capped over a given period then it might be less of an accountability issue.

I'm not suggesting anyone can't be trusted to administer a payment scheme, I'm just trying to pre-empt the bitching of some future disgruntled member.

I think that's very important TBH.

maybe the donate button could disappear once the target is reached.

[shemtek_racing]

Has no one any patience these days? A few seconds for a page to load is hardly the end of the world.

I would like a t5d5 email address though, hotmail is so 2009

[RedExocet]

From my point of view, being a relative newcomer, I've received a lot of very good info from the members on this site - and far less BS than I expected to be honest. So on that basis alone I'd be happy to make a donation to speed things up. As previously stated, everyone is under financial pressure so I coulnd't make a big or regular donation but if the most active members make a donation then I'm sure we could get �500 a year.

Yes its only a few seconds delay, but when you're searching for something it can make it very frustrating. I've no doubt the slow response will be offputting to potential new members as well.

I suppose the other option is to make it a paid membership - even at �5 a year it'd cover costs and maybe allow for the purchase of some basic tools for loan to members ? I'm thinking of a couple of (even home made) fault code readers, service interval reset tools etc...

Whatever happens, I'm happy to donate something when the option is available - and thanks to all that have helped me once again

[Nunchukhamster]

Can I just check I understand, to achieve the sort of server we need for the forum to work how we'd all like is basically �40 a month?

[BADGERBOX1]

I echo redexocet's coments. being relatively new member I have learnt a lot from this site, and has enabled me to modify my car properly without buggering it up, as I don't have the knowledge myself to know what to do, especially as I am driving my first volvo. Also lots of friendly advice and info on here so would be happy to either make a donation or subscribe each year.
ant.

[V70Ben]

Nunchukhamster, on 13 March 2010 - 10:30 , said:

Can I just check I understand, to achieve the sort of server we need for the forum to work how we'd all like is basically �40 a month?

Pretty much as far as I'm aware, it may differ slightly - but not so much that is an issue whatsoever.

I've now been allocated the task of finding a suitable host (funnily enough) and have identified a few that appear to be perfectly suitable, and also they fit in with my opinions/wants in terms of reliability/scalability/supporting as they actually own their 3 big dedicated datacentres (ie they aint leasing rackspace, and reselling it, in a third party suite) - Admin trialled one solution similar to the one we are on now, that they said may handle it, and it failed at the first hurdle as you know. That failute tbh made the situation clearer in the sense it removed one set of options, but made it also clear that the costs of hosting were likely to be over and above what they previously were.

The issue is that we are at a crossroads, It's of a size/capacity which makes it unsuitable for the hosting options similar to what it is now on, but at the same time it's also not big enough, nor does it warrant some of the silly money solutions (ala �300+ pcm) which is why the moderation team suggested that it went to the members - and here it is.

[RobbieH]

I'm with several people on here - I've saved a lot (but spent a lot as well with no doubt more to come) due to interaction with this forum. I have no objection at all to donating but invisibly.

[Dream3r]

[quote name='V70Ben' date='12 March 2010 - 23:05 ' timestamp='1268435152' post='125632']
Sorry, I was clock watching given the time and tbh have had lots on my brain of late (and it's run out of bandwidth)

Thats tbh what all the Mod/Admin team want to avoid, and have done since day 1.

Exactly the same as my thoughts.

I may give you a call again tommorow - I can mention it then

[quote]

cool, I'm working way all day though, not sure when I'll be back but it will be in the evening.

[V70D5]

It's a tricky one and I appreciate your problem. I'm liking the non beneficial donation route myself.

If we have a total required amount and a "donate" button, maybe via paypal, we can then donate as much as we can/as much as we want to and can donate as often as we want to.

Many of us are unemployed but the odd fiver here and there would suite me personally. I personally am not bothered if the donating members names are or are not shown but think that amounts should not be shown.

Just my 2p's worth.

[HammyUK]

We have a donate button over on Gixerjunkies.
That gives VIP status - BUT other than your name in a different colour and access to the VIP section the main difference is that of sales.
Too many problems were arising of "lost" or poor kit that the Mods decided that only "VIP" members can post in the For Sale section.
It has stopped SOOO many problems and the VIP section is where suggestions like this are raised and "issues"resolved.
The only other closed section is the Mods and Admins section but thats for the Mods and Admins to whinge about everyone else

[Cassis R]

I think you should give Tim a 0901 phone number and let that pay for the forum lol,
The forum is a bit slow at times but i have no issues with that, but will stay on the forum no matter what way it goes,

Gary.