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Mark Reynolds

Gripper LSD wanted please

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I here was me thinking 350bhp would be easy lol, after seeing 500+bhp in europe :D

Tim Williams, we need to talk please, if you would be so kind to PM your number ?

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Like all things in life...it's a compromise.

You can get 500 + HP. But don't expect to drive it around town or around a track for any length of time. The mods required don't make them massively user friendly. And it's a scale of diminishing returns with regards your wallet.

Up at around 350 ish bhp the old 5 pot white block can tolerate a bit of a thrashing without punishing you with endless mechanical failure. Keep pushing it (HP wise) & as above, you're into the land of deep pockets.

Speak with Tim, if you can (don't take it personally -he's not ignoring you, he's just flat out with a small army of like minded fools :) ) and take his advise on board regards what's realistic with your budget.

Good luck, Morgan

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Yup, taking advice, I need to run at least 300bhp - 350bhp minimum to make it worth bothering with IMHO........hoping to speak with Tim today when he has a moment :)

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Like all things in life...it's a compromise.

You can get 500 + HP. But don't expect to drive it around town or around a track for any length of time. The mods required don't make them massively user friendly. And it's a scale of diminishing returns with regards your wallet.

Up at around 350 ish bhp the old 5 pot white block can tolerate a bit of a thrashing without punishing you with endless mechanical failure. Keep pushing it (HP wise) & as above, you're into the land of deep pockets.

Speak with Tim, if you can (don't take it personally -he's not ignoring you, he's just flat out with a small army of like minded fools :) ) and take his advise on board regards what's realistic with your budget.

Good luck, Morgan

 

To be fair, mine at 458bhp was very user friendly on road and track, even with a paddle clutch and 1.7bar, though I did have a Quaife rather than a gripper and a really crap map. I know I've said it a few times before, but with that turbo, a decent map by Tim/Ben, more supporting mods and a 2.4,  500bhp wouldn't have been out of the question. However if it had gone racing  :nuke:   probably covers it. 

For a T5 engine to be reliable for racing it's even more imperative that oil pressures and temps are stable along with coolant temps, none of which have been successfully implemented with a modest budget as of yet IMO. Much work needs to be done in this area for these engines to be classed as reliable for racing, which if the knowledge is passed down will of course help the track day enthusiast.      

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To be fair, mine at 458bhp was very user friendly on road and track, even with a paddle clutch and 1.7bar, though I did have a Quaife rather than a gripper and a really crap map. I know I've said it a few times before, but with that turbo, a decent map by Tim/Ben, more supporting mods and a 2.4,  500bhp wouldn't have been out of the question. However if it had gone racing  :nuke:   probably covers it. 

For a T5 engine to be reliable for racing it's even more imperative that oil pressures and temps are stable along with coolant temps, none of which have been successfully implemented with a modest budget as of yet IMO. Much work needs to be done in this area for these engines to be classed as reliable for racing, which if the knowledge is passed down will of course help the track day enthusiast.  

 

Sorry Steve but you are wrong!

 

It's not  :nuke:  but more like   :drive2: for about that long   :lol:  

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So what am I looking at to be able to run 15min sessions then ?? with a modest starting 300bhp and hopefully 350bhp/375bhp end game.

I would love to run the car in longer races at some point as well ?

 

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Its ok Blackbeast and I are having a laugh We have both been through a massive tuning journey with many failures.

First was the new oil pump issue or reworked sold as new by Volvo they munched engines just after you had done a rebuild I was lucky enough to missed that one. then came high oil temps so we fitted oil cooler rads to the front using ports of the end of the block on the drivers side, this caused low oil pressures and still we both had high oil temps and low pressures.

Blackbeast gave up and broke his car before it broke him it was fast and nice and made 450bhp

I carried on and fitted an s60r sump with cooler of the back of the block oil pressures where cured but the damage had been done. Enter 2.5 S60R Botton end and and still high oil temps? we recently realised Black beasts and mine still had AC which sits in front of the cooling rad :doh: and those who don't suffer high water and oil temps don't have AC so that is my next step remove the AC rad I am going further and looking into different windage tray and trap door in an effort to reduce crank case pressures and aid in some cooling we will see?

I am also looking into going losing the cooler of the back of the block and fitting a normal sump and having a Mocal sandwich plate going to an extra cooler up front. the guys who track in the states have done this and had good results

But you being a racer I bet you already know Fit the biggest Ali rad with fans with the best air flow and an oil cooler plate of the filter and you will be laughing!

Tim has none of them and has no issues but he has no AC in the way off cooling and has over 400Bhp 

If I was you now after all I had been through I would go 2.4 block forged rods new bearings 850 head 16T all ported and polished matched all the way from the inlet Larger throttle body VXR Injectors 470cc AP racing clutch and fly wheel uprated fuel pump and methanol and chose your suspension and brakes and you will have around 330bhp and a bit more torque I once had this set up and with a 2.3 block and it was brilliant very responsive but my turbo was hybrid so not exactly a 16T but started out life as one.

 

So don't worry to much about some of us we are cynical in our old age you carry on and build it with what we all know now you should be ok.

 

PS Tim Drives very fast on track for a good 10-15 mins if not longer sometimes but he still can't keep up with Irf in Honda ATR  :whistling:

 

Cheers Greg

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But you're both forgetting its an early ME7, so a VVT head, no t5d5 Tim mapping...

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I've now fitted a new AC condenser to my car to allow for better airflow.  Damned if I'm driving a T5 without aircon, freekin sweat box!  Obviously I don't switch it on on track.

 

When Tim drives my car it doesn't get over hot, when I drive it I can do three or four laps of Combe 'flat out' before my coolant temps start to rise.

 

Tim brakes for less time, changes gear less, doesn't over rev the engine and carries more speed through the corner.  What I'm saying is the biggest limiting factor for my car is me :)

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Greg before you go ripping your AC out we need to do some back to back comparisons between yours and my car - mine not having any AC and having the same temp gauge as you i reckon there will be very little noticeable differance between our cars and it may save you losing your AC my C70 had its aircon in place and iirc my oil temps were very similar between that and my 850

If your going to return to the old cooler set up i wonder if running the oil through the inrad oil cooler then through the additional cooler then back to the sump would be better as has been proven by the D5 oil-coolent heat exchanger on the backs of the sumps the coolent is pretty effective at cooling the oil

I would also question anyone saying they dont have oil temp issues when they dont monitor it in any way all they can really say is my engine hasnt failed due to high oil temps yet

And lastly i wouldnt fit a 16t the lag from a 19t is barely noticeable and it pulls much better up the rev range and will you be able to run methanol injection in a race series?

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But you're both forgetting its an early ME7, so a VVT head, no t5d5 Tim mapping...

I did forget he will be going for the VVT head but that will give him more power anyway So Shark or MTE for mapping if he could get a later engine with VVT on the inlet and outlet even better! he would hit 350bhp all day long with mods.

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Greg before you go ripping your AC out we need to do some back to back comparisons between yours and my car - mine not having any AC and having the same temp gauge as you i reckon there will be very little noticeable differance between our cars and it may save you losing your AC my C70 had its aircon in place and iirc my oil temps were very similar between that and my 850

If your going to return to the old cooler set up i wonder if running the oil through the inrad oil cooler then through the additional cooler then back to the sump would be better as has been proven by the D5 oil-coolent heat exchanger on the backs of the sumps the coolent is pretty effective at cooling the oil

I would also question anyone saying they dont have oil temp issues when they dont monitor it in any way all they can really say is my engine hasnt failed due to high oil temps yet

And lastly i wouldnt fit a 16t the lag from a 19t is barely noticeable and it pulls much better up the rev range and will you be able to run methanol injection in a race series?

Sorry for the thread high jacking Mark can a mod please put the irrelevant other bits into a new thread and call it running temps or something if the op dose not want his thread messed up? 

 

Hello Tingy

 

I haven't removed the AC yet and as Andy says he has a better flowing condenser and 850's are sweat seat boxes in the summer so I am thinking of asking Tim if it can be moved to a different place with a smaller condenser? its more of a wish list thing?

I have a list of thing I want to do!

I am planning to get a Ali rad possibly a DO88

I want to also try as well a different windage tray with a trapdoor sump design and crank scraper in an effort to reduce Crank case pressures and stop all the oil getting splashed around on track which in its self causes oil and engine temps to rise, this I will try with the cooler of the back of the block combined with the Ali rad and AC moved or removed

If I still get high temps then will try going back to normal sump with out the cooling of the back of the block and fitting a Mocal thermostat sandwich plate of the filter housing to a small rad at the front some of the track day users on Volvospeed have had good results with this.

 

AS for temps well one session I forgot to switch the fan on straight away and 2 laps at Snett and temps got to 135 degrees C

with fan on same again but this time 3 laps before i hit 135 again.

 

Luckily I was running the 10-60 But considering my mates Supercharged Honda went round all day long at 8500rpm and never got hot there must be something we can do to improve our road going cars for track use and high temps? or reside to the fact that our heavy old things make great fast A to B road cars but not good track cars

 

Cheers Greg

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Well you definitely have a plan then ;)

Just didnt want you to go doing something not easily reversable (like ripping the AC out) without exhausting other options first

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Well you definitely have a plan then ;)

Just didnt want you to go doing something not easily reversable (like ripping the AC out) without exhausting other options first

Its more of a wish list. But for tracking these cars All the above mentioned cant hurt apart from the oil return to the sump If I get that wrong it will be expensive.

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Right slight update here.....

I had the chance of a different donor car, so took it, ex Police V70 manual, with no sunroof, in white, made perfect sense, and not ME7, cable throttle.........hence sold original Auto donor.

So of course I will be ditching the AC, fit as big a rad as I can get in with electric fan etc, and hopefully bigger intercooler.

Planning new 18t turbo, new rings, new valve stems, competition head gasket (if they exist ?), forged rods and ARP bolts......and a sponsor is porting the head for me.

Oil cooler seems a sensible option, but re: pressure, can I upgrade the oil pump maybe ?

thx for everything so far.

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As you can see I picked up another T5 Saloon as well for spares, another manual, seems to go like stink compared to the white one, despite white one just having had a new PCV system etc, Police car has done quarter million miles tho, so I forgive it, turbo is worn and smokes a little eh :D

Will keep the engine from the red one (which is also pre ME7 and throttle cabled car) as a good spare.....and ECU etc, might be mapped I have no idea, it does go well tho.

post-13672-0-35394600-1480549048_thumb.jpg

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The red one is Pre ME7! On an S Reg?!  That's gotta be super rare.

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Wow a V70 is a heavy old Bus to start with I would have thought you might have gone for something lighter?

I got my IC through Tim Williams from TTS I think it's a 70mm core and people with over 450bhp use them.

I have driven a few cars with 18T's in different stages of modification and i was not that impressed by the response of any of them Like I said my hybrid 16T was always great for fast road use with all most no lag I have driven a 2.3 with 19T and it felt a more responsive then any of the 18T cars?

For head gaskets as far as I am aware we just use standard ones even those with over 400bhp.

For the oil cooler as long as you don't use the lines of the drivers side of the block it should be ok. I would use either a mocal sandwich plate of the filter housing or oil lines of the back of the block with large fittings I have spoken to a guy in the states and he has both of these set ups does not suffer low oil pressures with them.

Not heard of any uprated oil pumps? Long high speed right hand bends are a problem for theses cars if I remember correctly. I think Don uses a trapdoor sump to overcome this problem

 

Keep us updated with some pics to if possible

 

Thanks Greg

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The collection has begun! :lolbang:

If you break the red one let me know... may be some useful parts!

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Wow a V70 is a heavy old Bus to start with I would have thought you might have gone for something lighter?

 

 

according to the all knowing wiki the kerb weight range for the 850 is heavier then the V70's and tbh if you want light weight then don't look at Volvos lol

 

head gasket I believe the focus ST one is steel which makes it stronger then the Volvo one also id still look at putting at least a 2.4 bottom end in it as for the amount you will spend on forge rods getting the 2.3 to take the low down boost you could drop a 2.4 in

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according to the all knowing wiki the kerb weight range for the 850 is heavier then the V70's and tbh if you want light weight then don't look at Volvos lol

 

head gasket I believe the focus ST one is steel which makes it stronger then the Volvo one also id still look at putting at least a 2.4 bottom end in it as for the amount you will spend on forge rods getting the 2.3 to take the low down boost you could drop a 2.4 in

Every day is a school day mate I stand corrected lol

Good call on the other parts Tingy!

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The collection has begun! :lolbang:

If you break the red one let me know... may be some useful parts!

heheh indeed, had 3 of them for a couple of days.

S70 is in the workshop having engine removed at the moment, cracking 160 minimum across the pots, knew it was a goodun by the way it pulled.

Rest of the car is available, MOT'd , virtually brand new (cheap) tyres all round and drove spot on apart from tracking ever so slightly out.

Can deliver for the cost of derv.

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heheh indeed, had 3 of them for a couple of days.

S70 is in the workshop having engine removed at the moment, cracking 160 minimum across the pots, knew it was a goodun by the way it pulled.

Rest of the car is available, MOT'd , virtually brand new (cheap) tyres all round and drove spot on apart from tracking ever so slightly out.

Can deliver for the cost of derv.

 

Sorry are you breaking for parts or selling the car as a whole?

Edited by s40rch

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Would prefer the whole car went in one go tbh........I have removed the engine tho, as it went like a train and a good motor to keep as a spare.

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After reading the rules you sent me I'm sure 350BHP isn't possible, 310 would be about the very most assuming no intake restrictor is required. The stroke of the engine cannot be altered and the bore not increased by more than 0.6mm, the intercooler if changed is size limited and most importantly the turbo cannot be changed. The boost pressure can be raised though.

A P1 V70 is then more suitable than most 850s but if the rules are abided by and allow transmittion changed a "P3" (2000) V70R is long term going to be the biggest project but also the only one that has a 19T so able to deliver 350BHP.

A 2005-2007 T5 with a remap, intercooler and exhaust can give about 350BHP.

If the rules are not important or I misunderstood them the standard engine in your car with a 19T, intercooler and exhaust will give 320-340BHP depending on the condition of the engine.

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