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Gregs T5R

Methanol use which way?

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So some of us on here use methanol via injecting it pre throttle body

Well a friend is now using a Haltech standalone ECU it comes with an option called flex fuel where a filter in the fuel line reads the amount of Methanol and adjusts the ECU in real time. So every time he fills his tank up he puts a 5 litre can of methanol in his tank first and being an Evo 8 it only hold just over 50 litres so he put just under 10% in each time. Obviously he has had to change his pump to an E85 and the lines have all been changed so they don't corrode. but his back to back test from his old system have gained him 19hp over the old method of injection it in?

But I am wondering when he gets it out on track will he lose the cooling benefits you get from injecting it in the air inlet?

Thanks Greg 

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Was his old setup an injection setup like we run? So hes gained 19hp over that?

No reason he couldnt inject additional methanol or just run water for the cooling benefits on track the main thing i like about meth injection setups we have is the bang - buck ratio is great we have convenient tanks in the boot which last a day at the ring/a trackday and the progerssive kits really arnt that pricy in the grand sceme of things how much was his ECU setup fuel pump and lines?

50litres sheesh does he plan long journeys based on which fuel stations hes going to stop at lol

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Surely that defeats the whole point of having water meth injection? The spraying of a fine mist into the hot charge air to lower the IAT's, therefore suppressing detonation.

I assume adding methanol to the tank will just raise the octane rating without having any additional cooling effect to the IAT's, the whole reason why we run WMI.

What confuses me the most is why you need a sensor to read the fuel mixture to adjust it in real time? If you're adding the same petrol/meth mixture to the tank each time then it's the same mixture behind injected? Hmm.

 

 

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Over the years he had been through lots of set ups like we have and had replaced lots of kits that had failed.

He already owned the ECU it was on his old Supra before it went to the scrapyard in the sky I think its a Haltech Elite UCE.

He altered the Loom to fit for about £300 which was being converted to Mitsubishi from Toyota and had the wire for the flex fuel sensor added at pretty much zero cost he had to add a 2X E85 pumps £178 each as he uses a swirl pot of some sort, the lines are AN6 Meth/E85 proof line and connectors all the way to the fuel rail cost him another £100 and the sensor which he said goes in the return line? was £220 but its been working fine for nearly 3 months he says it feels like it has a better response.

Just a different way of injecting it! he is happy how it works and thinks it will out last any other delivery system he has used?

 

Yes it lives in the local petrol stations. Once upon a time on track his Dad managed to empty the tank in 90 miles:lol:

 

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20 minutes ago, s40rch said:

Surely that defeats the whole point of having water meth injection? The spraying of a fine mist into the hot charge air to lower the IAT's, therefore suppressing detonation.

I assume adding methanol to the tank will just raise the octane rating without having any additional cooling effect to the IAT's, the whole reason why we run WMI.

Yes thats why i posted it as I am wondering the same as you? 

20 minutes ago, s40rch said:

What confuses me the most is why you need a sensor to read the fuel mixture to adjust it in real time? If you're adding the same petrol/meth mixture to the tank each time then it's the same mixture behind injected? Hmm.

He uses a 5 litre can and the amount is not exact as he does not run the tank totally empty, he explained the sensor reads the amount of Methanol in the fuel and adapts the boost and ignition in real time. so even if he runs out of meth it makes no difference to the ECU it just adapts back to normal.

 

Clever stuff if it works?

 

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Different engine's have different ideal cylinder temps and cooling requirements. 5 cylinder white blocks are very sensitive to detonation at 3800-4400RPM so a slower burning fuel helps there to enable more ignition advance. 

 

Everything being equal doing the same with a white block couldn't possibly give gains over how we inject. Adding 10% to the fuel tank will mean a constant 10% methanol to petrol ratio with no noticeable charge air cooling. Running 5 470cc injector at 60% IDC is 2585cc per min, we inject 500cc per min of methanol at that point so over double the methanol percentage and the charge air cooling... it may give desirable benefits in some other motors that have very different cooling and fueling requirements to ours. 

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Ok

My friend has just left after visiting this morning and he thinks most of the extra power is down to the ECU being able to adapt the parameters in real time when it reads the meth. He said that his EGT temps are at least 100 degrees lower than normal when giving it big licks. But like Tim says all engines react differently!

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1 hour ago, Gregs T5R said:

Ok

My friend has just left after visiting this morning and he thinks most of the extra power is down to the ECU being able to adapt the parameters in real time when it reads the meth. He said that his EGT temps are at least 100 degrees lower than normal when giving it big licks. But like Tim says all engines react differently!

That's good, the slower cooler burn of the methanol will lower EGTs. Adaptive ignition timing can advance timing starting the burn earlier makeing an even bigger difference than just the fuel. 

 

It's really nice to see standard production cars now with WI. It will be funny if they activate the AC on demand to fill the tank lol. 

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2 hours ago, Tim Williams said:

It's really nice to see standard production cars now with WI. It will be funny if they activate the AC on demand to fill the tank lol. 

Now that is an interestingly funny thought, so to gain power via WI the car may engage the AC compressor :BangHead: 

Although I am pretty sure on the grand tour Jeremy showed that the M2 has a tank in the boot floor you fill with 'water'.

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